Re: [802SEC] straw poll on interim EC telecon meetings
I am generally supportive of some sort of "continuous processing capability". If the standards board can do this, we can too. I'm not sure teleconference is the right format. I think it requires some thought. The BOG seems to be able to conduct business by teleconference. How do the account for international participation? Our TAGs (well 802.18) seems to be able to conduct business by teleconference. How do they deal with international participation?
Concerning the actual rules, I've tried to summarize all the relevant ones at the bottom of this e-mail. There is a lot. Here is my general take:
IEEE and SASB rules explicitly allow us to conduct business by teleconference as long as our own rules don't prohibit it.
There don't seem to be specific notice requirements except that you give notice.
Unfortunately, our own rules do seem to prohibit it. (See particularly LMSC OM 22.214.171.124, 126.96.36.199, and 188.8.131.52)
Geoff seemed to have referenced older versions of this material but he had the gist of it
Our P&P are structured around the assumption that we only meet at plenary sessions
I note though that some of this material (like limiting time) we seem to ignore a lot...
PAR votes are particularly prohibited by the elaborate process we've set up (LMSC OM 12.2 and 12.3)
Fundamentally if you want this, I think you need a rules change...
Here are some suggestions at a work around:
In the past I've had to chair meetings with participants from Europe / Asia / NA. What I did was hold the meeting twice (10 AM / 7 PM seemed to work well). Then everyone got a chance to air their issues. I'd publish draft minutes from the first meeting prior to the second meeting which provided some continuity. Then I collected strawpoll votes across both meeting to arrive at a consensus. While it was a lot more work for the chair and secretary, this seemed to make all the participants happy. Interestingly many people did attend both meetings anyway.
Perhaps we can consider a similar process here. Conduct two teleconferences (assuming we need to accommodate Asia, otherwise one may be enough) on the same agenda. Collect (in minutes) input from each. Publish the draft minutes from both meetings for consideration. Then conduct e-mail ballots on all the key topics (I suggest keeping the agenda limited so we don't have too many votes at once). The rules say you can close out the ballots early if you get enough votes. As long as we are all engaged and participating, you should be able to get the votes done in a day. Note that I think this still won't accommodate PAR votes, our rules are too specific to allow this.
IEEE ByLaws - 300 Management
(2) The Board of Directors, the Major Boards, the Standing Committees, any other board or committee reporting directly to the Board of Directors, and any board or committee of any organizational unit of the IEEE, may meet and act upon the vote of its members by any means of telecommunication. The normal voting requirements shall apply when action is taken by means of telecommunications equipment allowing all persons participating in the meeting to hear each other at the same time.
From SASB OM:
4.2.6 Continuous processing of IEEE-SA Standards Board and committee agenda items
In order to reduce the time involved in standards development, the IEEE-SA Standards Board and its committees may use continuous processing through electronic technologies to consider appropriate agenda items. Each agenda item to be considered under this methodology shall be carefully appraised as to its suitability for this process. The IEEE-SA Standards Board and its committees should establish means for
continuous processing according to their unique needs. These methods are publicly available by contacting the Secretary of the IEEE-SA Standards Board.
Any votes taken by the IEEE-SA Standards Board during continuous processing are subject to the provisions stated in subclause 5.1 of the IEEE-SA Standards Board Bylaws.
5.3.3 Standards development meetings
Standards development meetings are to be conducted consistent with the principle of openness. Working group participants may include members and non-members when the requirements to gain membership are specified in Sponsor or working group P & P. A 'meeting' includes any convening for which notice was required to be given or for which membership-credits or other participation rights are either earned or exercised. Meetings may be in-person or may be via electronic means, as appropriate.
While a WG may maintain its own participants list to track membership status, the authoritative list of participants is maintained in an IEEE-SA database.
184.108.40.206 Appointment process for IEEE-SA BOG members-at-large appointed by the eligible members of the IEEE-SA BOG
Those members-at-large shall be appointed by a plurality of the votes cast by the eligible members of the IEEE-SA BOG at a meeting, normally held by teleconference, scheduled prior to the last regularly scheduled meeting of the IEEE Board of Directors in the year of appointment.
4. Procedures for the IEEE Standards Association Board of Governors (IEEE-SA BOG)
Dates for regular meetings shall be approved by the IEEE-SA BOG. Special meetings of the IEEE-SA BOG may be called by the IEEE-SA President if necessary.
Meetings may be held in person, by telephone, or by videoconference, or by any combination of these three means. Members of the IEEE-SA BOG are responsible for the costs of attending meetings.
5.2 LMSC Technical Advisory Groups (TAGs)
e) Between plenary and interim meetings, the Chair of a TAG is empowered to schedule
teleconference meetings to allow the TAG to conduct business as required, provided that
the date and time of the teleconference and agenda are published on the TAG website and
e-mail reflector at least 5 calendar days before the meeting.
f) Votes on TAG documents other than recommended practices and guides may be
conducted verbally during teleconference meetings if a majority of the TAG members are
7. Sponsor Vote
Approval of an action requires approval by at least a majority vote of the Sponsor of voting
members voting approve or disapprove. Notification of the potential for action shall be included
on any distributed agendas for meetings.
These actions include
a) Adoption of new or revised Sponsor procedures, interest categories, or revisions
b) Formation of a subgroup, including its scope and duties
c) Disbandment of subgroups
d) Approval of minutes
e) Approval of public statements
f) Approval of change of the Sponsor scope
g) Approval of termination of the Sponsor
h) Approval of draft standards for balloting
i) Approval to forward PARS to IEEE-SA NesCom
j) Apporval to forward draft standards to IEEE-SA RevCom
k) Other motions brought to the floor by members (when deemed in order by the chair)
220.127.116.11 Voting at Meetings
Only members of the Sponsor with voting rights are counted in the approval rate calculation in
determining the approval threshold for any Sponsor vote. Unless specified otherwise in the
LMSC P&P or this OM, all Sponsor votes are in addition subject to the following provisions:
The Chair may vote only if his vote can change the outcome. Votes on disciplinary matters
concerning Sponsor members shall meet or exceed a 2/3 approval threshold. For other matters,
votes shall meet the approval thresholds in Robert's Rules.
18.104.22.168 Electronic Balloting
At times, it may become necessary for the Sponsor to render a decision that cannot be made prior
to the close of one plenary but must be made prior to the opening of the following plenary. Such
decisions may be made using electronic balloting. Provision shall be made for the LMSC
membership to observe and comment on Sponsor electronic ballots. All comments from those
who are not members of the Sponsor shall be considered. Commenters who are not members of
the Sponsor are urged to seek a voting member of the Sponsor (normally their WG or TAG
Chair) to include the viewpoint of the commenter in their vote.
The LMSC Chair, or a Sponsor member designated by the Chair (usually a Vice Chair), shall
determine the duration of the ballot, issue the ballot by e-mail and tally the votes after the ballot
is closed. Sponsor voting members shall return their vote and comments by e-mail.
The minimum duration of an electronic ballot shall be 10 days. For urgent matters once
sufficient response is received to clearly decide a matter, the Ballot may be closed early. This
allows a decision to be reach in less than 10 days. Ballots where the possibility of an early close
exists must be clearly marked accordingly. Otherwise, the tally of votes shall not be made until
at least 24 hours after the close of the ballot to allow time for delivery of the e-mail votes.
The affirmative vote of a majority of all members of the Sponsor with voting rights is required
for an electronic ballot to pass except when specified otherwise by the LMSC P&P or this OM.
If at the end of the ballot insufficient votes have been received to pass the ballot, the ballot fails.
The motion and tally of any email votes since the last EC meeting shall be included in the
minutes of the next EC meeting.
Sponsor meetings are open to observers. However, some meetings may occur in Executive
Session [see subclause 6.3 of the LMSC Policies and Procedures]. An open discussion or
acknowledgement of a request to participate in a particular discussion is determined by the
22.214.171.124 Procedure for Limiting the Length of the IEEE 802 Sponsor Meetings
a) The reports from the WGs and TAGs should deal primarily with issues related to LMSC
as a whole or inter-group coordination. Reports of those items that will be covered in the
plenary meeting should be minimized.
b) The maker of the motion, after the motion has been seconded, has up to five minutes to
explain the motion and to answer questions about it.
c) Each Sponsor member has two minutes of uninterrupted time to state an opinion about
the motion. It is not necessary that all two minutes be used.
d) The opening Sponsor meeting shall start at 8:00 a.m. and end no later than 10:30 a.m. on
Monday morning and the closing Sponsor meeting shall start at 1:00 p.m. and shall end
no later than 6:00 p.m. on Friday of the plenary session.
e) If the Sponsor so modifies a WG's motion that the WG Chair believes the WG
membership may no longer support the revised motion then the WG should be given the
opportunity to reconsider what action it wishes to take and present it to the Sponsor at the
next Sponsor meeting. This action can be accomplished by a Privileged Non-debatable
"Request to Defer Action" made by the affected WG Chair which will automatically
cause all action on the motion to be deferred until the next regular Sponsor meeting.
5.2 Interim Sessions
In addition to plenary sessions, IEEE 802 WGs and WG subgroup may hold interim sessions. An
interim session may be for a single WG or WG subgroup or it may be a joint interim session for
any combination of WGs, and subgroups.
Interim sessions shall have: 1) Reasonable notification (>30 days) in addition to any
announcement given at a Plenary session, and 2) Few last minute shifts in location (<< 1 per
12.2 LMSC Approval (of PARS)
A complete proposed PAR and, if applicable, responses to the five criteria per 12.5 below shall
be submitted to the Sponsor via the Sponsor email reflector for review no less than 30 days prior
to the doay of the opening Sponsor meeting of an LMSC plenary session. The submittal
message should include Internet links to the required submittal documents. Presence of the
submittal message in the reflector archive (with time stamp) is evidence of delivery.
Approval of the PAR by the EC is contingent on inclusion of accepted responses describing how
the proposed PAR meets the five criteria and a work plan for the development of managed object
definitions, either as part of the PAR or as a part of an additional PAR. PARs which introduce no
new functionality are exempt from the requirement to provide responses to the five Criteria.
Examples of such PARs are: Protocol Implementation Conformance Statements (PICS),
Managed Object Conformance Statements (MOCS), PARs to correct errors, and PARs to
12.3 Plenary Review (of PARs)
In order to ensure wide consideration by IEEE 802 members, PARs for significant new work
(those that will result in a new Standard/Recommended Practice/Guide or an addition to an
existing one) shall pass through the following process during the IEEE 802 plenary session week
in which Sponsor approval is sought:
Prior to the start of the IEEE 802 session, draft PARs and 5 criteria under consideration for
approval by the Sponsor shall be available at a publicly accessible URL and an email sent
to the Sponsor reflector should contain the URLs required for viewing the PAR and
associated documentation. WG chairs should inform their WGs of the PARs that have been
circulated to the Sponsor. Once approved / disapproved by the Sponsor, PARs and
supporting material should be removed from the public URL. Supporting material shall be
available in sufficient detail for members of other WGs to understand if they have an
interest in the proposed PAR (i.e., if they would like to contribute to/participate in the
proposed work, or identify if there is conflict with existing or anticipated work in their
It is highly recommended that a tutorial be given at a previous plenary session for major
new work items.
WGs, other than the proposing WG, shall express concerns to the proposing WG as soon as
possible and shall submit comments to the proposing WG and the Sponsor by e-mail not
later than 5:00 p.m. on Tuesday of the plenary session.
The proposing WG shall post a response to commenting WG and to the Sponsor together
with a Final PAR on a public website and circulate the relevant URL on the Sponsor
reflector not later than 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday of the plenary session. It will be assumed
that insufficient coordination and/or inter-WG consideration had occurred prior to the
submission of the PAR if this deadline is not met, and the proposed PAR will not be
considered by the Sponsor at the closing Sponsor meeting.
Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
BAE Systems - Electronics, Intelligence & Support (EI&S)
Office: +1 973.633.6344
Cell: +1 973.229.9520
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Paul Nikolich
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 10:19 AM
Subject: [802SEC] straw poll on interim EC telecon meetings
Dear EC members,
I'd like to get your feedback on holding an EC meeting via teleconference between plenary sessions (for example in the 1st week of June, October and February). My though is we'd hold a 2 hour telecon to make decisions on time-critical items such as PAR approvals, Sponsor Ballot initiation approvals, RevCom submissions, etc.
I'd make sure we'd have an agenda posted 30 days in advance an all the materials necessary to make such decisions available for review at least one week before the telecon.
Thoughts? Please provide your feedback by 23APR. I'll summarize the feedback and if the response is positive, I'd like us to consider holding the first such meeting 1pm-3pm ET Friday 04JUN2010.
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