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Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT: AMP Transmit Specification.

Bo, please help to put this PDT in the presentation queue.  
26/0833r4 AMP Transmit specification.

Cheers, 
Nelson.

On Tue, May 12, 2026 at 7:47 AM Nelson Costa <nelson@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi TTT members, 

r4 of this PDT has be uploaded to Mentor.  It addresses comments from AM2.  
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/26/11-26-0833-04-00bp-pdt-amp-transmit-specification.docx

Cheers, 
Nelson.

On Mon, May 11, 2026 at 11:35 AM Bin Tian <0000305ea96e7ac9-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Make a correction below, the Tx center frequency error need to be defined for bi-static backscatter and has the same requirement as that active Tx device, 10^3ppm.

 

From: Bin Tian <0000305ea96e7ac9-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2026 8:21 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT: AMP Transmit Specification.

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

I missed the AM2 discussion on this document.  Please find my comments below

 

40.3.11.3 Transmit center frequency and transceiver chip clock frequency tolerance

For all the data rates that are defined for the monostatic backscatter non-AP AMP STA in 2.4 GHz, the frequency tolerance shall be ±10^5 ppm for both the receiver and the transmitter of the backscatter non-AP AMP STA.

Bin> For mono-static backscatter,  we don’t need to define frequency tolerance but need to define the chip/symbol clock error limit. 10^5 should be the chip clock error.

Also, is there a need to mention all the data rates and MCS.

 

For all the data rates and/or MCSs that are defined for the active Tx non-AP AMP STA and for the bistatic backscatter non-AP AMP STA, both in 2.4 GHz, the transmitter center frequency tolerance of the active Tx non-AP AMP STA shall be ±10^3 ppm.

Bin> The requirement is only for active Tx non-AP AMP STA, why the data rates of bi-static backscatter matter?

 

For all the data rates and/or MCSs that are defined for the active Tx non-AP AMP STA in 2.4 GHz, the transmitter chip clock frequency tolerance of the active Tx non-AP AMP STA shall be ±10^4 ppm.

 

For all the data rates that are defined for the active Tx non-AP AMP STA and for the bistatic backscatter non-AP AMP STA in 2.4 GHz, the receiver chip clock frequency tolerance of the active Tx non-AP AMP STA shall be ±10^4 ppm.

Bin> What are the receiver chip clock error limit for AMP-Enabled and bistatic backscatter non-AP STAs

 

In summary, maybe better to reorganize the text and clearly define the Tx center frequency error limit and the symbol clock error limit (may not need to mention Tx or Rx since Tx and Rx generally uses the same chip clock and not sure Rx clock is testable). In another word, we should consider to define the following limit

  • AMP enabled non-AP STA
    • Tx center frequency error limit : N/A
    • Chip (or symbol) clock error limit: 10^4ppm
  • Active Tx  non-AP STA
    • Tx center frequency error: 10^3ppm
    • Chip (or symbol) clock error limit: 10^4ppm
  • Mono-static backscatter  non-AP STA
    • Tx center frequency error: N/A
    • Chip (or symbol) clock error limit: 10^5ppm
  • bi-static backscatter  non-AP STA
    • Tx center frequency error: 10^3 ppm
    • Chip (or symbol) clock error limit: 10^4ppm

 

Thanks,

Bin

From: Nelson Costa <nelson@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2026 6:51 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT: AMP Transmit Specification.

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi TTT members, 

 

Please see the latest version for the AMP Transmit Specification PDT.  There are minor revisions based on comments received during AM2 today.

 

 

Cheers, 

Nelson.

 

 

On Tue, May 5, 2026 at 3:02 PM Nelson Costa <nelson@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi TTT members, 

 

Please see the latest version for the AMP Transmit Specification PDT. 

 

Cheers, 

Nelson. 

 

On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 5:31 AM Amichai Sanderovich <amichai.sanderovich@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hello Nelson,

 

I am referring only to the downlink TX masks. Complying with the HE mask requires implementation of 256 FFT, even if you are transmitting only 64.

For AMP DL we do not transmit 256 FFT anywhere so no need to impose such requirement on the DL.

Perhaps we can further discuss during the F2F if you plan to attend.

 

Best Regards

Amichai 

 

From: Nelson Costa <nelson@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, 29 April 2026 at 15:56
To: STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT: AMP Transmit Specification.

Hi Amichai, 

 

Thanks for your comments.  No, as far as I'm aware, there was no motion passed for which 20 MHz transmit mask. My hope is that we can discuss this here.

 

From my notes in Explanation of the proposed changes, the transmit mask changed between the VHT and HE PHYs.  That mask has stuck in every subsequent PHY.  The main lobe of the HE mask actually got wider, by 1.5 MHz.  As far as I can tell, the reason is because HE introduced the 256 tone FFT within a 20 MHz span, putting the edge of the signal closer to the edge of the mask.  If my understanding is correct, there are still 64 point FFT OFDM symbols in HE, and they still have to comply with the mask.  

 

None of this I think is relevant to an UL masks, if that's your point? 

 

Cheers, 

Nelson.

 

On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 4:53 AM Amichai Sanderovich <amichai.sanderovich@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hello Nelson, and thank you for the PDT

 

My comment is about the transmission mask in section 40.3.11.1.2 AMP DL PPDUs in the PDT document.

It uses the transmission mask defined in 802.11-2024 for HE and not the one defined for HT.

Was there a motion passed on that?

My concern here is that HE mask usually requires implementation of 256 FFT instead of 64 FFT for HT mask. Such FFT requirement for the DL is not beneficial for AMP, while limiting deployments and implementation options.

 

Best Regards

Amichai

 

From: Nelson Costa <nelson@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, 29 April 2026 at 2:32
To: STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT: AMP Transmit Specification.

Hi TTT members, 

 

Please find the first revision for the PDT AMP Transmit Specification on Mentor. 

 

Comments are welcome!

 

Bo, please help to add this PDT to the list.  

11-26/0833 PDT AMP Transmit Specification

 

Cheers, 

Nelson.

 

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