Hi Jon,
Apparently, there are two different opinions on Accepted vs Revised although either way will lead to the same resolution.
I personally do not want to continue this discussion in the reflector. I will pull this CID off and discuss in TG.
Best,
Po-Kai
From: Jon Rosdahl <jrosdahl@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2025 6:25 PM
To: Huang, Po-kai <po-kai.huang@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Proposed resolutions for 36 ED1 comments posted
Mark and Po-Kai,
Is this the CID 228 you are referring to?
I would say it is correct to be Revised, and don't call him Shirley....
Jon
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Jon Rosdahl Engineer, Senior Staff
IEEE 802 LMSC Executive Secretary Qualcomm Technologies, Inc.
office: 801-492-4023 10871 North 5750 West
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Email: jrosdahl@xxxxxxxx
A Job is only necessary to eat!
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On Tue, Oct 7, 2025 at 5:00 PM Huang, Po-kai <po-kai.huang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Task Group M Technical Reflector ---
Hi Mark,
Response below.
Best,
Po-Kai
From: Mark Rison <m.rison@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2025 12:45 PM
To: Huang, Po-kai <po-kai.huang@xxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Proposed resolutions for 36 ED1 comments posted
Thanks, Po-Kai.
Surely for CID 228 it should be "ACCEPTED Note to the Editor: the correct figure number is 9-122"?
[Po-Kai]: I can do accepted, and say note to the editor: the figure number for User Info field format in the NFRP Trigger frame is 9-122.
And for CID 412 it should be "ACCEPTED" or if you really insist "ACCEPTED Note to the editor: "frame format" should be added after "Deauthentication", not before or in the middle of the word".
[Po-Kai]: The commenter does not have instruction. The comment just says something is missing. I use revised to add it back.
Thanks,
Mark
--
Mark RISON, Standards Architect, WLAN English/Esperanto/Français
Samsung Cambridge Solution Centre Tel: +44 1223 434600
1 Cambridge Square, Cambridge CB4 0AE Fax: +44 1223 434601
ROYAUME UNI WWW: http://www.samsung.com/uk
From: Huang, Po-kai <po-kai.huang@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, 7 October 2025 14:26
To: STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Proposed resolutions for 36 ED1 comments posted
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Task Group M Technical Reflector ---
Hi all,
Revision 1 is uploaded.
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-1749-01-000m-revmf-lb289-ed1-ad-hoc-comments.xlsx
Best,
Po-Kai
From: Huang, Po-kai <po-kai.huang@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2025 5:07 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Proposed resolutions for 40 ED1 comments posted
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Task Group M Technical Reflector ---
Hi Mark,
For CID 49, IEEE editor has helped us to fix the issue. I have revised the resolution like the following in the database.
REVISED
Add the missing … to align the page number with other page number and do the same changes in all other places with similar issue. Note that this is due to FrameMaker problem. The fix of framemaker reference page style will automatically fix all the instances.
49
Youhan Kim
100.18
Contents
"field5380" should be "field 5380"
Change "field5380" to "field 5380"
REVISED
This is related to the reference page setting of framemaker. Editor to use the reference page format that can provide .... page number even when the title is too long.Why is this not ACCEPTED? What does the resolution mean? What change is being proposed instead?
It is not accepted because this is a software issue about the reference page of table of content. If you check table content you will see that every clause with title too long that goes to the next line will have this issue. Once we fix the reference page, it will take care all instances and not just this instance.
[MR1] Is the identified problem going to be fixed and result in the change requested by the commenter? If so, then it should be marked ACCEPTED. The technical details of how the fix is achieved are not the commenter's problem, nor indeed of anyone else reviewing/voting on the comment resolution
[Po-Kai]: If the software issue is fixed, this should reflect to all instances. I use revised just because all other instances will be changed as well if the solution for this instance is implemented. Note that I will not manually just fix this instance if that is what you are asking for. In any case, people will also need to understand this is a software issue so they do not submit any comment like this again. I remember people like to comment on reference naming when we have cross out in the title, and we have to educate commenter that there is not much we can do by explaining the software issue, so I will say why this happens is relevant.
[MR2] OK, then the resolution should be something like "REVISED
Add the missing space here and in all other places where missing (due to FrameMaker problem)"
[Po-Kai]: Thanks! Actually Edward is checking with IEEE editor to see if they have better way. The response I get is that they are doing manually change… If they can only do manual change, then I probably will change the resolution a little bit and hope that you do not mind. I thought before that I can change using reference page, but all my attempt so far does not work….
Best,
Po-Kai
From: Huang, Po-kai
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2025 2:53 PM
To: 'Mark Rison' <m.rison@xxxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Proposed resolutions for 40 ED1 comments posted
Hi Mark,
Get it. Update the database to the following.
change the instance at 747.34 as suggested by the commenter. At 743.53 change "Reference to "a BlockAckReq" frame" to "Reference to a "BlockAckReq frame""
Best,
Po-Kai
From: Mark Rison <m.rison@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2025 1:36 PM
To: Huang, Po-kai <po-kai.huang@xxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Proposed resolutions for 40 ED1 comments posted
Hello Po-Kai,
it should be from
Reference to "a BlockAckReq" frame
to
Reference to a "BlockAckReq frame"
[Po-Kai]: I see the confusion. I have already done that. The following is what I have in the database.
change the instance at 747.34 as suggested by the commenter. At 743.53 change "Reference to "a BlockAckReq" frame" to "Reference to a "BlockAckReq" frame"
No, that is not correct. Ignore the outermost double quotes, since
they are just confusing, and pay close attention to the remaining
double quotes. There should not be a double quote after BlockAckReq,
there should be a double quote (in the draft) after frame. See my
yellow and cyan highlights above.
Thanks,
Mark
--
Mark RISON, Standards Architect, WLAN English/Esperanto/Français
Samsung Cambridge Solution Centre Tel: +44 1223 434600
1 Cambridge Square, Cambridge CB4 0AE Fax: +44 1223 434601
ROYAUME UNI WWW: http://www.samsung.com/uk
From: Huang, Po-kai <po-kai.huang@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, 6 October 2025 21:16
To: STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Proposed resolutions for 40 ED1 comments posted
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Task Group M Technical Reflector ---
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the exchange. In sum, I pull out 468, 485, 510, 583.
Other CIDs seem to converge. Response below.
Best,
Po-Kai
From: Mark Rison <m.rison@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2025 1:08 PM
To: Huang, Po-kai <po-kai.huang@xxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Proposed resolutions for 40 ED1 comments posted
Hello Po-Kai,
Thanks for your responses. My responses with [MR2] below.
CID
Commenter
Page
Clause
Comment
Proposed Change
Resolution
mgr comment
Response to the comment.
2
Rojan Chitrakar
115.01
LOT
Is there a need to introduce an acronym LOT just for one instance?
Replace LOT with List of Tables.
REVISED
This is already addressed in D1.1.The resolution does not specify the actual changes made
There is no change made. The proposed change is already there in D1.1 as described in the resolution. Do you want me to use reject?
[MR1] The comments are against D1.0 so the resolutions need to be against D1.0 too
[Po-Kai]: So you want Accepted- Note to the editor, this is already addressed in D1.1.
[MR2] Yes, that's fine
[Po-Kai]: Thanks! Change in the database already. Will upload r1 later.
3
Rojan Chitrakar
151.01
LOF
Is there a need to introduce an acronym LOF just for one instance?
Replace LOF with List of Figures.
REVISED
This is already addressed in D1.1.The resolution does not specify the actual changes made
There is no change made. The proposed change is already there in D1.1 as described in the resolution. Do you want me to use reject?
[MR1] The comments are against D1.0 so the resolutions need to be against D1.0 too
[Po-Kai]: So you want Accepted- Note to the editor, this is already addressed in D1.1.
[MR2] Yes, that's fine
[Po-Kai]: Thanks! Change in the database already. Will upload r1 later.
49
Youhan Kim
100.18
Contents
"field5380" should be "field 5380"
Change "field5380" to "field 5380"
REVISED
This is related to the reference page setting of framemaker. Editor to use the reference page format that can provide .... page number even when the title is too long.Why is this not ACCEPTED? What does the resolution mean? What change is being proposed instead?
It is not accepted because this is a software issue about the reference page of table of content. If you check table content you will see that every clause with title too long that goes to the next line will have this issue. Once we fix the reference page, it will take care all instances and not just this instance.
[MR1] Is the identified problem going to be fixed and result in the change requested by the commenter? If so, then it should be marked ACCEPTED. The technical details of how the fix is achieved are not the commenter's problem, nor indeed of anyone else reviewing/voting on the comment resolution
[Po-Kai]: If the software issue is fixed, this should reflect to all instances. I use revised just because all other instances will be changed as well if the solution for this instance is implemented. Note that I will not manually just fix this instance if that is what you are asking for. In any case, people will also need to understand this is a software issue so they do not submit any comment like this again. I remember people like to comment on reference naming when we have cross out in the title, and we have to educate commenter that there is not much we can do by explaining the software issue, so I will say why this happens is relevant.
[MR2] OK, then the resolution should be something like "REVISED
Add the missing space here and in all other places where missing (due to FrameMaker problem)"
[Po-Kai]: Thanks! Actually Edward is checking with IEEE editor to see if they have better way. The response I get is that they are doing manually change… If they can only do manual change, then I probably will change the resolution a little bit and hope that you do not mind. I thought before that I can change using reference page, but all my attempt so far does not work….
220
Haorui Yang
757.33
9.3.1.8.6
Encoding of Block Ack Starting Sequence Control field and Block Ack Bitmap field are missing.
Add the below to the end of the paragraph:
The Block Ack Starting Sequence Control subfield is shown in Figure 9-49 (Block Ack Starting Sequence Control subfield format). The Starting Sequence Number subfield of the Block Ack Starting Sequence Control subfield contains the sequence number of the first MSDU or A-MSDU for whitch the Multi-STA BlockAck frame is sent. The Fragment Number subfield of the Block Ack Starting Sequence Control subfield is set as defined in Table 9-40 (Fragment Number subfield encoding for the Multi-STA BlockAck variant).REVISED
Add at the end of paragraph at 752.33. "If the AID11 subfield of the AID TID Info subfield is not 2045, 2009, or 2047,(#M7) then the Per AID TID Info subfield has the format shown in Figure 9-66 (Per AID TID Info subfield format if the AID11 subfield is not 2045, 2009, or 2047(#M7)(#11be)). The Block Ack Starting Sequence Control subfield is shown in Figure 9-54 (Block Ack Starting Sequence Control subfield format). The Starting Sequence Number subfield of the Block Ack Starting Sequence Control subfield contains the sequence number of the first MSDU or A-MSDU for which this BlockAck frame is sent. The Fragment Number subfield of the Block Ack Starting Sequence Control subfield is set as defined in Table 9-44 (Fragment Number subfield encoding for the Multi-STA BlockAck variant)."Is the second half of the proposed resolution the same as the proposed change? What is the reason for the extra material?
For the second half, if you look very carefully, the difference is “for whitch the Multi-STA BlockAck frame is sent.” Vs “for which this BlockAck frame is sent.” The second one is the style used in other clause. For example, see 9.3.1.8.3
[MR1] I see. Would be worth stating this to the commenter. But anyway, why is the first half being added?
[Po-Kai]: Ok. I can highlight that. I will also say add after “If the AID11 subfield of the AID TID Info subfield is not 2045, 2009, or 2047,(#M7) then the Per AID TID Info subfield has the format shown in Figure 9-66 (Per AID TID Info subfield format if the AID11 subfield is not 2045, 2009, or 2047(#M7)(#11be)).” to be specific.
[MR2] OIC, you're not actually adding new text. Yes, that would be much clearer then
[Po-Kai]: Thanks!
226
Haorui Yang
231.04
3.1
"NOTE-" is missing.
Add "NOTE-"
REVISED
Add back "NOTE-" to all the descriptions below definitions in 3.1 if missing.The resolution does not specify the actual changes made
I think it mentions we add “NOTE-” to all description below definitions?
[MR1] You mean that whenever there is a para below a definition, that does not start with some text in bold followed by a colon, this is being changed to a NOTE—? If so, you should say that (rather than the vague "if missing")
[Po-Kai]: OK. I can say that specifically.
256
Ryunosuke Sakamoto
661.13
8.3.5.15.2
There is a typo. "data" is mistakenly written as "date."
correct "date" to "data."
ACCEPTED
A full stop should not be added
OK. I will use revise.
258
Li-Hsiang Sun
1886.20
9.6.7.33
First several octets in Figure 9-1335 are missing
add first 16 octets back to the figure
REVISED
This is updated by 11bk-2025.The resolution does not specify the actual changes made
It does not specify the change because it is already fixed in 11bk-2025 as described in the resolution, which me and Edward are rolled in and will appear in D1.2.
[MR1] The comments are against D1.0 so the resolutions need to be against D1.0 too
[Po-Kai]: OK. I will just say do the revision like 11bk 2025.
[MR1] Well, like Figure xxx in 802.11bk-2025
[Po-Kai]: Thanks! This is what I have in the database.
Add back the 16 bytes as defined in 11bk 2025 for Figure 9-1221 (FTM frame Action field format)
468
Mark RISON
2040.56
9.6.27.2
"is set to an unsigned value that represents the MCS difference" -- per 9.2.2 it's unsigned by default
Delete "is set to an unsigned value that"
REVISED
We delete the cited texts, but add a note.The resolution does not specify the actual changes made
OK. I will say add a note “NOTE—The MCS Difference field is set to an unsigned value.” This the resolution similar to your another comment on unsigned integer.
[MR1] OK, I object to that because 9.2.2 already says that "Unless specified otherwise, a number in a field is encoded as an unsigned integer."
[Po-Kai]: I will pull this out for review then.
475
Mark RISON
747.34
9.3.1.8.1
Reference to "a BlockAck" frame
should be
Reference to a "BlockAck frame". Ditto 743.53As it says in the comment
REVISED
change the instance at 747.34 as suggested by the commenter. At 743.53 change "Reference to a "a BlockAckReq" frame" to "Reference to a "BlockAckReq" frame"The quoted text at 743.53 is incorrect: it's not "to a "a BlockAckReq" frame", it's "to "a BlockAckReq" frame"
OK. Will change this.
[MR1] However, I think the point of the comment has been missed. It should be to change from
Reference to "a BlockAck" frame
to
Reference to a "BlockAck frame"
[Po-Kai]: I do not get what you mean. My understanding is that the change refers to what you want.
[MR2] In the second change you are saying to change from
Reference to a "a BlockAckReq" frame
to
Reference to a "BlockAckReq" frame
but it should be from
Reference to "a BlockAckReq" frame
to
Reference to a "BlockAckReq frame"
[Po-Kai]: I see the confusion. I have already done that. The following is what I have in the database.
change the instance at 747.34 as suggested by the commenter. At 743.53 change "Reference to "a BlockAckReq" frame" to "Reference to a "BlockAckReq" frame"
485
Mark RISON
361.63
4.5.4.2
"without association by establishing a PTKSA using authentication frames" precedence unclear and bad case
Change to "without association, by establishing a PTKSA using Authentication frames". Also change "authentication" to "Authentication" at 3433.48
REVISED
We change "authentication frames" to "Authentication frames". There's no grammatical or structural need for a comma before "by", as it's tightly connected to the verb "allows" (specifically, it modifies "protection" to describe how it's achieved).Not clear which "authentication frames" has/have been changed to "Authentication frames". Think comma makes the sentence clearer, too
OK. I will say change "authentication frames" in the cited texts. Disagree on the comma. If you want, I can pull this out for discussion.
[MR1] It should be "Authentication frame"[s] not "authentication frame"[s]. You just need to identify where you are making the changes. As for the comma, OK, let's discuss this in the next meeting
[Po-Kai]: I will pull this out for review then.
510
Mark RISON
744.63
9.3.1.7.4
"as given by TID_INFO + 1, e.g., a 2 in the TID_INFO subfield means that three TID values are present in the Multi-TID BlockAckReq frame's BAR Information field" -- readers of the 802.11 spec can safely be assumed to be able to do this simple small integer sums without help
Delete from ", e.g." to the end of the sentence
REVISED
The example is revised to be a note. "NOTE—A 2 in the TID_INFO subfield means that three TID values are present in the Multi-TID BlockAckReq frame's BAR Information field."Don't think such a NOTE has any value, given the readership
Obviously, the person who proposed this at the beginning think there is a value. I remembered this is added due to some comments, which is the reason why I try to keep it. If you want, I can pull this out for discussion.
[MR1] OK, let's discuss this in the next meeting
[Po-Kai]: I will pull this out for review then.
583
Joseph Levy
270.13
3.2
The definition "restricted target wake time: [R-TWT] TWT with enhanced medium access protection and resource
reservation for delivery of latency sensitive traffic as described in 35.8 (Restricted TWT (R-TWT))." has formatting issues.Replace the current definition with: "restricted target wake time (TWT): [R-TWT] TWT with enhanced medium access protection and resource reservation mechanisms for delivery of latency sensitive traffic.
Note: see 35.8 (Restricted TWT (R-TWT))."REVISED
Add "(TWT)" after "restricted target wake time". Replace " as described in 35.8 (Restricted TWT (R-TWT))." with " Note- See 35.8 (Restricted TWT (R-TWT)). "How does this differ from the proposed change? And Note should be NOTE. But in any case I don't think a xref is justified, let alone a NOTE to give the xref
The difference is that the proposal is “Note:” rather than “Note-”. Agree to capitalize NOTE. I will change that. For the NOTE, I do not see why reference is not justified. I have seen cases using a NOTE or without using a NOTE for reference. I am fine either way.
[MR1] That's borderline: it's telling you how to determine channel starting frequencies, so there's perhaps some justification.
[MR1] This one seems spurious to me, indeed, and I would delete it. I think there has to be a good reason to give cross-references from Clause 3 to other clauses, especially since AIUI this goes into some aggregated dictionary, where "See 34.2" won't make any sense
[Po-Kai]: I will pull this out for review then.
Thanks,
Mark
P.S.: Incidentally, who is "we" in the proposed resolutions?
--
Mark RISON, Standards Architect, WLAN English/Esperanto/Français
Samsung Cambridge Solution Centre Tel: +44 1223 434600
1 Cambridge Square, Cambridge CB4 0AE Fax: +44 1223 434601
ROYAUME UNI WWW: http://www.samsung.com/uk
From: Huang, Po-kai <po-kai.huang@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, 4 October 2025 00:41
To: STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Proposed resolutions for 40 ED1 comments posted
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Task Group M Technical Reflector ---
Dear all,
I've uploaded 25/1749r0 that contains proposed resolutions for 40 ED1 comments that are straightforward to resolve in my opinion.
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-1749-00-000m-revmf-lb289-ed1-ad-hoc-comments.xlsx
Following the practice of ED2 comments, I might not present the proposed resolution of any CID unless any of you would like to pull any CID out for further discussion.
Thanks in advance for the review.
Best,
Po-Kai
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