Re: [802.3_ISAAC] May meeting minutes

[Kamal Dalmia <kamal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Dear Chair,

Thanks for your prompt reply. I don’t see how items #2 and #3 are addressed in your response to my email. These two items below are related to the “process” rather than terminology.

Regarding item #1, your proposal of using the term “proposed drafts” is introducing a term that is not defined in the process that the Task Force is required to follow.
The process I am referring to is clearly defined on the Page 28 titled “Overview of IEEE 802.3 Standards Process (2/5) – Task Force Comment Phase” of the March plenary agenda that you presented to the TF.

https://www.ieee802.org/3/dm/public/0325/agenda_3dm_01c_0325.pdf

Are you suggesting that the TF is to follow a process that is different than this flow? I am asking this because you are now introducing new terms and item #3 below talks about the chair outlining a “process”.

In case you are proposing a flow that is different than the established flow, I would like to know in clear terms what exactly are you proposing. Please provide a clear flow chart to describe your proposed flow and the definition of any new terms you use in such a flow.

I further note that the texts that have been submitted are only “proposals”

I object to the inclusion of the word “draft” in either of your phrases - "proposed drafts" or "draft text associated with the proposals" to describe what are merely “proposals”.

The terms “draft” and “proposal” have specific meaning in the context of IEEE. These two terms “proposals” and “draft” are used as such in the flow chart.

Unless the Task Force votes on a specific technical “proposal” and adopts it with 75% approval towards a “draft”, it does not make it to the “draft”. I wonder if the attempt to insert the word “draft” in the description of a “proposal” is an attempt to give an impression that somehow the proposals have been voted upon by the TF.

Thanks
Kamal




From: Lewis, Jon <Jon.Lewis@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Saturday, July 19, 2025 at 9:55 AM
To: Kamal Dalmia <kamal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: May meeting minutes
CAUTION: This email is from an external origin!



Kamal,

For items #1 to #3:
I agree with your comment in principle and the minutes should likely read "proposed drafts" or "draft text associated with the proposals" and not "drafts".  During the July plenary we will have an opportunity to make this change and any other modifications the TF deems necessary.

For items #4 and #5:
Please reach out to IEEE SA IPR staff concerning this topic. (stds-copyright@xxxxxxxx)

Cheers

Jon Lewis | Chair - IEEE P802.3dm Asymmetrical Electrical Automotive Ethernet Task Force

-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Dalmia <kamal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2025 10:52 AM
To: STDS-802-3-ISAAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [802.3_ISAAC] May meeting minutes


[EXTERNAL EMAIL]

Dear all,

I have some questions and comments related to the draft of the May minutes that are posted on the 802.3dm site for review.

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ieee802.org/3/dm/public/0525/Unconfirmed_minutes_3dm_051425.pdf__;!!LpKI!hTsgQXgsjZvI4zxF7SgpBLDv6b9vxUY_Ar3DS5ztXUucQfQfhi7-6yv-OhwAkmD2pHSWEYPZU45HHNc$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ieee802.org/3/dm/public/0525/Unconfirmed_minutes_3dm_051425.pdf__;!!LpKI!hTsgQXgsjZvI4zxF7SgpBLDv6b9vxUY_Ar3DS5ztXUucQfQfhi7-6yv-OhwAkmD2pHSWEYPZU45HHNc$> [ieee802[.]org]

Currently, the minutes states the following -

"A participant asked about the process for maintaining two drafts. The chair responded that he wanted to move the drafts forward by consensus within their support groups, rather than formal motions. He outlined a process he intended to create to facilitate exchange of comments on the proposed text for each draft, in the process of building consensus."

 #1 - This statement gives an impresseion that there is more than 1 draft in existence, or there is an intent to have more than 1 draft at a given point in time. As far as I know, 802.3dm project currently has only one active draft. There are two "proposals" but not two "drafts".  What other draft is this referring to?

#2 - How does the chair intend to "move the drafts forward by consensus within their support groups, rather than formal motions"?
My understanding is that a "draft" can only be created by voting on technical items which require 75% approval.
What is the process of creating drafts without "formal motions"?

#3 - Regarding the sentence that states - "He outlined a process he intended to create to facilitate exchange of comments on the proposed text for each draft, in the process of building consensus."
What is the process this sentence is referring to? The minutes do not have any details. The sentence after this particular statement is related to adjournment of the meeting.

Furthermore:

#4 - The minutes contain a trademark on page 6. The trademark is in the very section where it is stated that the trademark was removed due to the objection. Also, the inclusion does not denote the trademark with TM and does not identity the owner of the trademark.

#5 - Contains several instances of a modified form of a trademark, while outlining how the modification has been derived i.e. "Trademarked term + Ethernet"
Does the inclusion of the modified form of a trademark meet the guidelines posted below?
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://standards.ieee.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/trademark-guidelines-for-contributions.pdf__;!!LpKI!hTsgQXgsjZvI4zxF7SgpBLDv6b9vxUY_Ar3DS5ztXUucQfQfhi7-6yv-OhwAkmD2pHSWEYPZJqNfgdk$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/standards.ieee.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/trademark-guidelines-for-contributions.pdf__;!!LpKI!hTsgQXgsjZvI4zxF7SgpBLDv6b9vxUY_Ar3DS5ztXUucQfQfhi7-6yv-OhwAkmD2pHSWEYPZJqNfgdk$> [standards[.]ieee[.]org]  If not, should all such instances be redacted?

Regards
Kamal


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