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Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization

I'm basically aligned with Buzz on this. For 802.16, the framework of the Plenary week has little affect on the WG schedule. In fact, the 802.16 schedule at the 802 Plenary - where it meets from Monday at 1 pm until Thursday at 10 pm - is essentially the same one the WG uses at its Interim sessions.

My preferred way to get more WG time is to delete the 802 Opening Plenary and have the Monday EC meeting end by 9:30 am (starting at 7:30 or 8). Then the WGs could start at 10 AM.

I like Buzz's idea for an earlier social - perhaps it could be 6-8 pm.


On 2008/10/20, at 11:58 AM, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:

Colleagues, I have waited a bit to comment on this thread to see where there might be some consensus before weighing in on this discussion, but I feel I do need to make a couple of comments on possible changes so we don't go off making some unwarranted assumptions.

1. Most of our current contracts specify the meeting space requirements in specific details to ensure that the space is available when we need it (and that includes set-up time for network and power distribution. Making substantial changes to the format of our current program may cause us to be unable to deliver the meeting space when it is expected and required. We can always request a program change but if the hotel has already allocated that space to other groups we may not be able to provide what is required, so any changes will require some flexibility that the extra space will be provided when available but cannot be guaranteed.

2. All of our current contracts include Food & Beverage minimums based on our current program schedule that includes the social. As a piece of business we are already seen as a lightweight in this area, which directly affects the prices we get for rooms and other services. If we were to just jettison the social without an offsetting increase in something else (e.g. lunches) then we would run the risk of undershooting our F&B minimums and wind up paying penalties for the social that we didn't have that almost equal the cost of the social itself. So there may be little or no cost advantage to dropping the social unless we add back something else. Right now we spend about $50 per attendee on the social; we would need to offset that amount elsewhere or we become a much less preferred piece of business and wind up paying higher prices for less. That's the business reality of it.

What I would like to suggest is that we maintain the same basic format except possibly moving opening EC to Sunday night and eliminating the Opening Plenary, and then to make the Tutorials and Social optional for the various WGs, so that each WG can choose to participate or not It could be possible to start the social at 6pm to allow those who have Wednesday evening meetings to still get some food before heading back to their evening meeting.

I'm not saying that changes are not possible, but I think we do better if we evolve slowly over time rather than to try to make radical changes on a short-term basis. We have always been responsive to the needs of WGs that needed extra time, and I see no reason why we can't continue to do that in the future but big changes all at once are difficult to accommodate. Let's help our WGs evolve to where they need to be over time. :-)

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Executive Secretary, IEEE-802 LMSC
Boeing IT
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
Ph: (425) 373-8960    Fx: (425) 865-7960
Cell: (425) 417-1022

-----Original Message-----
From: David Law [mailto:David_Law@3COM.COM]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization

Hi Steve,

What is proposed here would give the WGs approximately 1.5 hours extra
daytime meeting time Monday - allowing the WG to start at 10:30AM - and two extra evenings - eliminate Tuesday tutorial and the Wednesday social -
which is a start.

I however still think we should consider [1] moving the Opening EC to
Sunday evening to allow a full day of WG meetings Monday and/or [2] moving the closing EC to allow a half day of WG meetings Friday morning. Allowing WGs to meet Friday morning would also make Thursday evening available for WG meetings - and I would suggest that might be a better approach rather
than eliminating the Tuesday tutorial or the social.

I do realize that what I suggest places a greater burden on all-ready
overworked EC members, but I believe we should do everything possible to
allow the WGs the maximum time to do work.

Best regards,

***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <>
wrote on 18/10/2008 13:56:42:

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:] On Behalf Of Shellhammer, Steve
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization


       I am NOT in favor of the following,

1.      Moving Monday EC meeting to Sunday
2.      Moving Friday meeting to Thursday night

       However, I agree with some other ideas,

1.      Eliminate the 802 plenary and shorten the Monday EC meeting.
Get everything done by 10 AM so the WG's can start by 10:30 AM.

2.      Eliminate the social.

3.      Go from one night for Tutorials.  Alternatively, make a
deadline of 35 days before the meeting to commit to tutorials.  That
way if we only have one night worth of tutorials we can give Tuesday
to the WGs.  They would know 35 days in advance and could plan
accordingly.  They could get their agendas out 30 days in advance.


-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:] On Behalf Of J Lemon
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization


As I mentioned when I brought up the general topic some months back:

   * I believe that Monday mornings are not being used very
     effectively. I think we could probably shorten the EC opening
     meeting, and we could definitely drop the 802 plenary meeting
   * We already have too little time on Fridays. Decreasing our time,
     and moving it into the sleeping time of some members would make
     the problem worse than it already is. I would rather have the EC
meetings start Monday morning, and hopefully end early afternoon.
   * I see the cost/benefit ratio of the Wednesday socials to be
     heavily skewed towards the costs exceeding the benefits. I would
     be quite happy to see this disappear.
   * I tend to lose two weekends for most 802 plenaries. If it were
possibly to lose only one weekend, I would be much happier. So, I
     would be fine with moving the Monday EC meeting to Sundays,
     leaving all of Monday for WG meetings, and running the Friday EC
     meeting from 08:00 or 09:00 until around 15:00.


On 10/16/2008 1:47 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
Colleauges -

Given the not inconsiderable workload that some working groups are
attempting to tackle, I
feel it is worth re-visiting once again the question of how we
organize our Plenaries to
maximize the time available for useful technical work (which I
believe, when all is said
and done, is why we have these meetings in the first place). At
present, with the existing
meeting format, I get 2 ½ clear days of Task Group meetings; that
is rather less than we
need for effective progress. I am reluctant to move the closing
802.1 plenary to Friday
morning (as some WGs have done) with the present format, because
firstly I doubt we would
get the right level of attendance to conduct effective business,
given that there would
not be technical meetings that day, and secondly it would leave me
with no time for
preparation for the closing EC meeting.

So how can this be fixed?

Firstly, Monday mornings at Plenary sessions are largely a no-op
in my view. I don't think
that the format of the Monday morning plenary meeting is useful to
the majority of
attendees, and if it didn't happen, I don't believe there are many
attendees that would
miss it at all. If it wasn't there, we could start our WG opening
plenaries before lunch
and in my case, we could be off and running with Task Group
meetings by early-mid

Secondly, we could make the radical move to take the opening EC
meeting out of the
"working week" altogether, by holding it on the Sunday evening. We
already have a Sunday
PM rules meeting; maybe putting the two together on the Sunday
evening would help us to
crispen up both activities. Again, this would help free up Monday
time for WG activity.

Thirdly, although for some EC members, holding the closing EC on
Friday afternoon helps
with their travel plans, for others of us it creates a double whammy:

1)    We have to stay over until Saturday anyway, because even a
6PM close is too late
to get away on the Friday evening; and
2)    The fact that the closing meeting is in the afternoon makes
it difficult to make
sensible use of Friday morning (see opening para - we need some
time to prepare stuff for
the EC meeting following our closing WG Plenaries, and holding a
short Plenary on Friday
morning is a guarantee of low attendance).

So I would advocate moving the EC meeting to the 7pm-midnight slot
on Friday evening,
freeing up most of Friday for WG business - finishing the WG
closing plenary at (say) 3pm
would still allow us to get straight for the EC meeting, but would
also give us an extra
morning or part-morning for task group work.

Any thoughts?


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